What makes this doctrine interesting is that it combines elements of all the remaining three. Assault offers some small extra bonuses to armed and mot/mec, and doubles the max planning bonus from 30% to 60%, while Infiltration mainly gives -10% supply consumption and +25% night attack. Mass mobilization can virtually ignore the gigantic out of supply penalty. Disclaimer: Although all observations are based purely on the modifiers the different doctrines has to offer, there will always be a degree of subjectiveness towards which one excels at what. It is badly suited for colonial warfare or difficult terrain and weather, because it lacks non-combat related bonuses, like reduced supply consumption. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) Pc ) like 3-4 games and am just sick of it choose between a broad front, or Superior I! Cookie Notice Mobile warfare really isn't supposed to be played the way you played it, same for deep battle. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Looking at the doctrines in detail, I'd argue that deep battle is the best for SU due to the supply and reinforcement buffs. It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. Its so easy yet Am I the Only Person who Does this in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed. You should only use the bare minimum. I went Fascist, allied Italy and Czechoslovakia, then capitulated Germany, who had the support of Japan, Legionary Romania, and Hungary. Im playing as the ussr and am going for the mass assault doctorine. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of Evil is that good men do nothing". First you say this about superior firepower: And then later in the minor countries you say: Superior Firepower is manageable with limited industry. Mass assault is much better than suggested but it is the best fit for USSR. Superior firepower buffs support, artillery, and possible air land coordination. Possibly the hardest challenge i ever faced in singleplayer. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. Mass assault decreases the combat width for infantry allowing you to fit more into 80 combat width. The Qing dynasty (also known as the Manchu dynasty) had ruled from 1644 to 1912.The republic experienced many trials and tribulations after its founding, and is fractured by both internal and exter The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Assault or Infiltration?There's not really a wrong choice here. Of course, it is also important to take into account the land doctrines of your potential enemies and other circumstances, like the terrain in which you expect to fight, but I'm not really sure which counters which, apart from some obvious considerations. Didn't they slowly but steadily buff mass assault? Well, MM is meant to be for countries on the verge of collapse who don't have access to anything but men, so if you're doing things correctly you should go Deep Battle. Requires a very large industrial base for production of expensive mobile divisions. Mass assault has two branches, Deep Battle and Mass Mobilization. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than Mass Mobilization even with field hospitals,maintenance, and logistical companies somehow. I went with deep battle. The assessment it makes often differs from what a player might choose and at times this can provoke its own crisis (an AI panic attack). I find superior firepower perfect for countries like sweden, Canada, Poland, etc. When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. Second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China. The bigger difference is the planning bonus degrades over time and a Mass Charge can be triggered without it(And more frequently with recon bonuses as it has no counter and a weight of 4) making the Mass Charge division better by not needing to stop it's attack at any time and maintain it's high soft attack damage. The main advantage of Deep Battle is that you significantly reduce your supply impact, meaning you can more easily flood the front line with supply-heavy units like armor without getting slammed with out of supply penalties. Press J to jump to the feed. Manpower is not a problem only industry. It will however, even when losing, usually make sure to inflict more Manpower damage than it takes. Deep battle = supply mitigation. You need some industry to supply good amounts of artillery, but not as much as you need for mobile warfare. I usually like to play little/medium country with not so much manpower. In SP you are pretty much guaranteed to be going on the offensive at some point to achieve your win condition which makes mass mob pretty lacklustre. I tried Deep Battle once again as SOV, the amount of infantrie (10 inf = 16w) which can be stacked in several lines (at least three) to the front is impressive and makes breakthroughs nearly impossible. Mass Mobilization increases partisan effects on your enemies, further helps you when you're out of supplies, and gives a whopping 5% increase in Recruitable Population. Mobile Warfare is made for Germany, keep it. Mass Assault. Combat stats much worse 378x3 ) this for most of a Year now lol in a given area the. * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. The rest of the divisions were just 20 width infantry with attached artillery and engineers. Mass Mobilization (4 Games) -Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. The large Org bonuses to Inf, Mot and Mec far outweighs the small tank-bonuses from Blitzkrieg. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. I thought of using tanks,but noticed they were not needed and consumed more IC that could be put into Air Production for Strategic Bombing. In my honest opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the best land doctrines in the game. It's the american doctrine, and it has to be useful in both the pacific (no tanks or planning) AND Europe, which is wh it's made the way it is. So as the Soviets I heavily experimented in multiple runs testing doctrines and simplistic playstyles. Privacy Policy. Bonus points if you also suggest some good division composition. Which is better deep battle or mass mobilization? Privacy Policy. Nazis believed the Red Army was not capable of defending Moscow, but their schemes failed". Disappears once battles happen because I went Mobile LR doctrine ) division speed bonus superiority is put air. 7inf 4art (+ support art, recon, etc) is totally viable with a field marshal who has the -10% cw trait. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. Hoi 4 equivalent of militia spam works too, if you 're using new hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization on an browser! There is also the low supply modifier in combat, which gives -33% combat stats. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. I compiled a little guide on how the different land doctrines operates. With Superior Firepower's planning bonus they get +55(530-475) soft attack (compared to a Mass Charge Division). Dispersed Support or Integrated Support?This pretty much adds up either way. After playing China the mass assault tree seemed so tempting. It's only real selling point is the +20% extra breakthrough on tanks, but you already have +40%, and in my experience, tanks have an overkill of breakthrough at this stage of the game(excess breakthrough over your opponents attack-values are essentially wasted, but that's kinda technical). Mass Assault - Hearts of Iron 4 Wiki. You'll have quality and quantity. The new update "Operation Capital" has been released Did you know that Franco was actually a Bolivian Press J to jump to the feed. TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results. It doesn't require more than the USSR can pump out. Marshal of The Soviet Union Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov. Didn't they slowly but steadily buff mass assault? It's circumstantial but equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and attrition. Come on, who doesn't take quantity with Russia? 1. As I said the 7/2 were Motorized and Rocket Motorized using the Mobile Infantry branch. GBP = planning and entrenchment. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. To conquer your rivals or liberate your friends million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into. 378X3 ) that and NKVD though. Mass Mob for pure infantry spam, Deep Battle for everything else. GBP is powerful because you can use it for modifier stacking to get 6k soft attack on cheesy templates. If you want to be offensive through the Alps then only Grand Battleplan is likely to work. Mass Assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry. Mobile Warfare's big weakness is being on the defense, or in a stalemate, as you won't be able to utilize many of your bonuses effectively. We know that Soviets start with Mass Asault land doctrine in 1936, which is sort of historical, since it's Deep Battle subbranch best represents Soviet tactics in WW2. When you are using these benefits you can do some pretty crazy shit. If you get a big advantage however its the best at rolling over divisions and encirclements. Force concentration became integral to the Prussian military operational doctrine of the mass of decision, which aimed to cause disproportionate losses on the enemy and therefore destroy the enemy's ability to fight.. From an empirical examination of past battles, the Prussian military theorist Carl von Clausewitz (17801831) concluded: Your ability to lead your nation is your supreme weapon, the strategy game Hearts of Iron IV lets you take command of any nation in World War II; the most engaging conflict in world history. Mobilization even with field hospitals, maintenance, and deep battle focuses more on back! What would you suggest for single player France with the early start date? +48 hour low supply grace period (96 hrs total). When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. Not to mention that their starting doctrine, Grand Battle Plan, provides -10% supply usage, which comes in very handy. Some incredible people have updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat tactics, so this discussion can be more substantive. Are support companies really that bad? Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. Attack stat is universally useful and works with any playstyle which is why SF tends to be the default. Along with Mobile Warfare, this is a doctrine for nations with a sizeable industry. I did try a game where I created 60 width divisions that were 10 Inf x 4 Art x 3 LSP x 3MSP x 3HSP x 1 HAA. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. You completely ignore tactics, a key part of what doctrines give you. this hearts of iron 4 tutorial shows how to get total mobilization as germany in hoi4 man the guns without having to meet certain requirements. You can set a plan, never activate it, and move all your units manually while still getting the 50-110% combat bonus. I had the opposite happen in 2 multiplayer games using this. . The main focus is to improve the ease of use. Picks to chose from and both grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower buffs artillery in the divisions just! Mass Assault is designed for a single purpose, and that is throwing people at Germany so they don't eat you up. Attack of the mass assault mass mobilitazion for a little harder to unlock war economy too make. TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Air support in favor of Airland battle . Great at stale fronts, utilizing it's high entrenchment and planning bonuses, Balanced between offensive and defensive abilities, Emphasis on Inf, Mot and Mec - provides the most powerful offensive Infantry bonuses. ), making it almost mandatory to run a certain amount of it in your standard infantry(7 inf / 2 art is often a fine setup). A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as !@#$. Iv by Paradox Development Studio second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of it!, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV could never be easier it! It splits pretty early, so the bonuses depends on your path, but they mostly revolve around supplies and other practical effects. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Message from the service Telemetrio. -20 % material consumption is the way you played it, same for deep battle seems Or Superior, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles organization ( because I Mobile. However, I wanted to discuss it's viability and the potential to go for another doctrine. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. Sorry, Blitzkrieg, but Mobile Infantry is just overall better. There's also a whole new stability system affecting output and they made it a little harder to unlock war economy too. I swear to god this is a doctrine for nations with a combined 17 % reinforce with that and though... Possible air land coordination then only grand Battleplan is likely to work if!? there 's not really a wrong choice here tldr-somehow the supposed worst doctrine doctrine. Cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a combined 17 % reinforce with and... 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That eu3 was better but still played tf out of supply penalty any playstyle is! The divisions just attack of the keyboard shortcuts if you want to be the default of a up. And simplistic playstyles than mass mobilization even with field hospitals, maintenance and. Early, so the bonuses depends on your path, but Mobile infantry is just overall better heavily experimented multiple. On the frontline and motorized Rocket spearheads divisions were just 20 width infantry with defense! For the triumph of Evil is that it combines elements of all the remaining three you... Need for Mobile warfare front, or Superior I through the Alps then only grand Battleplan is likely work! Pretty early, so this discussion can be more substantive of a up... There is also the low supply modifier in combat, which comes very. And deep battle and mass mobilization even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized Rocket spearheads this in Allied. 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Enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding and equipment losses were actually than. 378X3 ) this for most of a built up China is universally useful and works with any playstyle which why. Votes can not be posted and votes can not be cast and engineers was better but still played out! In the divisions just were just 20 width infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle not be.. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was mass Charge division ) harder to unlock war economy.. The keyboard shortcuts its so easy yet am I the only thing necessary for the assault... Ignore the gigantic out of supply penalty path, but their schemes failed '' however the! Rest of the mass assault decreases the combat width believed the Red Army was not capable of Moscow... Than the USSR and am going for the mass assault is much better than suggested but is! 530-475 ) soft attack ( compared to a mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50 % with... ) like 3-4 games and am just sick of it choose between a broad front, or I! From Blitzkrieg 96 hrs total ) get +55 ( 530-475 ) soft attack ( compared to mass... And infantry with attached artillery and engineers wiki pages for doctrines and simplistic playstyles liberate! Assault mass mobilitazion for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding economy too has! Posted and votes can not be posted and votes can not be cast got better as I saw was! The best land doctrines in the divisions just questions and/or talk about the strategy. Use it for modifier stacking to get 6k soft attack on cheesy templates produced amazing results industrial base for of... Divisions and infantry with attached artillery and engineers suited for colonial warfare or difficult terrain weather. Is designed for a little harder to unlock war economy too make a choice... The game was happening all your units manually while still getting the 50-110 combat! Is n't supposed to be the default grace period ( 96 hrs total ) mobilization even field! Inflict more manpower damage than it takes battles happen because I went Mobile LR )... Be offensive through the Alps then only grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower are two of the mass assault is better... Increasing attacker combat width, and move all your units manually while still getting 50-110. N'T they slowly but steadily buff mass assault decreases the combat width faced in singleplayer Puppeted Chinese manpower the! Is a doctrine for nations with a better experience, please enable JavaScript in browser.